Less than 5 acres

[Ryan]

Hi there - I understand the benefits of a plot being over 5 acres but what can you do, in regards of staying overnight, for plots less than 5 acres.

As I understand - 5 or more acres - 28 nights stay in a year - up to 3 caravans

What is the ruling for less than 5 acres?

Reason being, I have found quite a nice spot but it's only 4 acres.

Thanks for any help !

[RichardKing]

Well as I understand it the only problem overstaying your 28 days will be if the council issues with a notice. Which will only happen if they are aware of you/you are visible from public right of way/ complaint from neighbours-public/ tresspassers.

[Ryan]

Thanks Richards - appreciate your answer and I understand where you are coming from.

So if you have less than 5 arces, you can still stay there for 28+ nights.

What about the caravan sitaution?

Less than 5 arces - can you still have a permanent caravan?

Thanks

[tracy]

As far as I know size doesn't matter ;-) Not absolutely sure, but we think there is no size limit. Look at

http://www.tlio.org.uk/chapter7/index.html

Mike tells me it is helpful!

[James M]

Ryan, we investigated this.

If you want to leave a caravan on site permanently you need to apply for a Caravan Site Licence, no matter where it is and that is granted under planning permission. Otherwise there'd be caravans lying around all over wherever people fancied living.

Your arguments could be a) you want to live there or b) you want to run a holiday site and the planners would probably not let you do either.

Even with the 28 day leisure rule you can't leave it there permanently without a Caravan Site Licence even though you'd only use it for no more than 28 days, if you see what I mean. If you're not there, then it can't be there. You'd not get away with saying you were just 'storing' it on your property either becasue you can only do that on a private main residence.

You may be able to keep it on there for 'forestry' purposes, but again it can't be there all year round and even then unless you are there working enough to justify it and your wood is large enough to justify it then they will make you shift it.

Remember the planner's MANTRA - "no-one is allowed to live in the woods".

I have a small caravan on our site and the planners have said it must be gone by later in the year, I even had to send through a forest management plan and details of a FC meeting I had before they'd give an inch.

Fair enough really, it's a wood not a caravan park, and a caravan looks out of place even though it's well hidden. I'll take it off for the winter, but I'll need to make the case again next year and show that I achived what I said I needed it for if I want it back on site - but it's so much hassle I don't think I'll bother.

I might just dig a hobbit style burrow deep in the trees.

Just joined and I'm posting a lot, must look like a right know it all!

[Stephen1]

I've never had any problems siting a caravan. Just over ten years ago I did use it to live in for a while and after pointing out the permitted development clause about using them for seasonal workers the planning department were fine. Since then I've had caravans sited - never used residentially, only as daytime shelter etc. and the council have been fine about that too.

The word I heard is (and I make no judgement about this- I can see pros and cons) that since a certain company started buying woods and cutting them up into small holdings of 5-10 acres the planning authorities have had to take a different view. If you consider 40 acre wood where the owner would have sited a single caravan, having little impact or disruption, what view might the planners take with regard to their remit to protect the countryside against development if the same wood now has eight owners each with 5 acres all wanting a caravan?

[Stephen1]

Actually Ryan as I understand it whether it's greater than 5 acres or not is unimportant for a forestry holding - I wonder if you've been looking at the permitted development rights for agricultural holdings, where there is a two tier system depending on size?

[RichardKing]

A recent tv programme on planning claimed that technically you have not broken the law unless you fail to comply with a court order.

[James M]

Building something without planning permission is not a crime in the legal sense. They can issue you with an enforcement notice to get rid of whatever you have built/sited - and if you don't comply with it then even that is not a crime, but they can send their own people in to enforce it and charge you for that.

They can also fine you if they think you've been making cash out of whatever you've built.

Regarding caravans, techncially you need to remove them for a short while over a 12 month period, it is true that if yours is the only one then the planners might turn a blind eye. The problem we have, not that I was going to leave a caravan on site permanently anyway because woods destroy caravans, is that the planners were hypersensitive about people putting anything on their which could be used as a 'let' becasue of some recent experiences thay had with other similar problems in the area.

The outcome was that they had to be seen to be applying the rules, I got the impression it was big headache for them and that they would rather have kept out of it.

You've nothing to lose by leaving a caravan on site, all they can do is tell you to move it, which you do easily enough if the site has good access and it's a tourer rather than a static, and then move it back after a while, ad infinitum. I would not spend any money on a log cabin kit or cottage and risk building something which would have to destroyed in order to be removed.

On the other hand - what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve for.

But they watch us like hawks.

[Ryan]

Thanks for all you comments regarding this - it has helped a lot!

I have been looking at yurts and there is a good article in this months Living Woods about them.

Removable (temporary) and looks like a lot of fun !!