Small Woodland Owners' Group

forum or Facebook

Here's a place for 'Off Topic' discussions and general chit chat between member. Please keep to the guidelines of the forum, and if it turns into a useful 'Woodie' type discussion, hop back and post it over in the appropriate section in the main forum.

Re: forum or Facebook

Postby oldclaypaws » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:59 pm

Do us a favour Simon, go and look at Facebook SWOG. You'd ban 2/3rds of the members and delete 2/3rds of the thread for 'unacceptable humour'. Its called being human.

Or try Arbtalk, the air is blue. Every other sentence has an four letter expletive. I'm not saying thats what we want here, but why are all the other forums relaxed and this one has to be so Sunday School? The standards applied to Swog Facebook and here are poles apart and at absolute extremes, hard to believe its under the same company umbrella. Apparently your bosses don't mind the tone on Facebook so there's no need to be so draconian over quite inoffensive normal banter. You are looking to have a pop at the slightest mild bit of banter. Some might call it bullying.
Last edited by oldclaypaws on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby SimonFisher » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:05 pm

So it's most drivel then?
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby oldclaypaws » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:12 pm

Some is drivel, but people have the right to write drivel if they want. God knows our elected politicians do it all day.
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby boxerman » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:48 pm

Whoops........ did I really start the 3rd world war with my simple comments?....

I think it's time for some time out guys before numerous folk get banned..

I love this place, as do the rest of you, and I would like to see it grow and thrive - clearly we all have differing views on how that needs to be achieved and I'm equally sure that all have this place at heart and equally clearly the style of moderation is at the heart of the matter. Simon runs it how he feels it needs to be run and that is exactly what a moderator needs to be doing - in the same vein, the active members are the ones that give the forum it's appeal and keep it healthy and active. I know this place is run by Woodlands and, I'd assume, their intention is to maintain a fun and active place to keep potential clients on board so as to keep business pointing their way - this is good and healthy for all but no-one benefits from this sort of dissension, neither the company nor the forum members. Any business, forum or any other concern must run within the parameters of what it's clients want i,e. there's little point in Cadburys producing a car ''cos their customers want chocolate..

My own, personal view, is that, in order to survive and thrive, this place needs to relax a little and allow a little more leeway (not having a go at anyone here, Simon). With this in mind maybe it's time for a big leap in faith and some face to face discussions about the future of this place. So...... who has a good woodland with space for 5 or 6 tents for a weekend?? Rich, Simon, Dexter, Paws and maybe myself and Smojo to stop you killing each other and few bottles to help the atmosphere along :mrgreen: Seriously, this could help to clear a lot of bad feeling and put this place back on track. Could actually be a very productive weekend and great fun to meet everyone face to face and, of course, full of BS....

Consider it a challenge - last one to agree brings the whiskey..... :D
Phil for my Badger videos
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby boxerman » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:17 am

P.S. I agree 'cos I ain't buying whiskey for a weekend with you lot...... :D
Phil for my Badger videos
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby Dexter's Shed » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:15 am

SimonFisher wrote:
This is difficult without naming names, so here goes. There are some on this forum who obviously think Dexter's Shed and Oldclaypaws are the life and soul of the party. There are a large number of others for whom the very reason they sit quietly is the same pair.

Fundamentally perhaps there is a differing of views as to what the forum should be like. There are some who want it to be like a bunch of mates down the pub, making the wisecracks, exercising their individual and somewhat acquired style of humour. Others don't mind if there are no new posts for a few days so long as they don't have to wade through pages of drivel to get to anything useful. If anyone wants the latter, it sounds like the Facebook page is really the place for you.

one thing I'm not is the life and soul of the party, but what I do tend to do is say it like it is without hairs or graces, maybe that's what other members enjoy, my woodland neighbour is one of those visitors that view but don't post, but he often chats about certain posts and peoples replies, I won't repeat the language he uses, but it's not aimed at us meer members but those higher up

what is a forum without members that regularly post?? maybe a blog would be better, as without people that posts, do ghost members really want to read advice on stuff from years ago, or do they want up to date ideas

members don't need to wade through what you refer to as drivel, as surely they are intelligent enough to view who the poster is, and if its mine or paws, not click on it, I'm amazed that your telling members that if they have different views than yourself, then they should go to facebook simon,
surely mods should be unbiased, but it seems myself and paws have been hung even before the courts out,

how about this, lets test this out, myself and paws promise not to put up any new posts or reply to any others, we will stay away, lets give it 6 months, then if we can still access the forum, lets see if it's better as you put it, maybe you yourself could put up a poll asking everyone, including the ghost members, if this is a better place, if it's an outstanding yes on the way you want it to be, I gladly leave, if however members are complaining that it's a stagnant forum, then you eat your words??

SimonFisher wrote:You really need a rule that says "don't post crude sexual innuendo" in a woodland owners forum???

so because it's a woodland forum, were only allowed to talk woodland stuff am I right????

SimonFisher wrote:My sister's considering having a Chesney's stove installed - a Belgravia or a Beaumont.

They don't own woodland and live far enough away from me that I'll not be supplying them :-)

see, everyone can be trivial,
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby SimonFisher » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:13 am

Dexter's Shed wrote:... I'm amazed that your telling members that if they have different views than yourself, then they should go to facebook simon,
surely mods should be unbiased, but it seems myself and paws have been hung even before the courts out,

I'm not aware that anyone has ever been subject to moderator intervention for expressing a different view.

No one as ever said that humour has no place on this forum either. What causes continual head-scratching and deliberation amongst the forum administrators/moderators so far as you (Dexter's Shed) and Oldclaypaws are concerned is that you seemingly insist on posting with a style of so-called humor which isn't widely appreciated. What you may consider to be funny, to others is seen to be an unnecessary wisecrack or a put down. Your comment of sexual innuendo wasn't a first incident - both you and Oldclaypaws have been repeatedly asked to show a bit more consideration, to tone down certain aspects of the style you sometimes adopt. Talk of being hung before the court's out is laughable - how long since how your behaviour on the forum was first raised with you?

Whether you like it or not, this is a privately-hosted forum and it is up to those who run it to decide what is and isn't wanted, what is and isn't appropriate. I should point out that it's not my forum and I have no obligation to or relationship with the sponsor. I am a long term SWOG member, present at the innaugural meeting and I was subsequently asked if I would help moderate the forum. I do so on an entirely voluntarily basis and I moderate using the guidelines agreed with and approval of the 'powers that be'. Should the time ever come when I feel unable to continue doing that, then I will stop. For the most part, moderation is splitting a topic where the subject goes off in a different direction or removing duplicate posts to try and keep all replies in one place. Moderating by me for anything other than those reasons has I'm fairly sure only been deemed necessary in respect of two users.

I have never moderated anyone for expressing a view that doesn't meet with mine. If you post with a style and attitude that you've already been told isn't wanted here, then expect moderator intervention. If that's not what you want, then perhaps Facebook is a better place for you.
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby smojo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:34 am

Phew. Billhooks at dawn then eh lads? Maybe just let the fire die down a bit eh. It's getting a bit overheated in here and I'm sure it's not what anyone wants really is it? Let's think of something nice and calm down. Here's the lyrics to a song you probably like to hum to yourself when your in your woods. You can't stay angry for long when you think of Julie Andrews and sing this little ditty. I think there's something for everyone in there no matter what colour, creed or personality you have.

Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens (how about this one for you Simon - it's nice and innocent)
Bright copper kettles and warm woollen mittens (one for the gypsies and scrap merchants)
Brown paper packages tied up with strings (one for Al Qaeda)
These are a few of my favourite things

Cream coloured ponies and crisp apple strudels (one for Princess Anne)
Doorbells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles (one for the postman)
Wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings (one for you Dexter)
These are a few of my favourite things

Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes (one for Gary Glitter?)
Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes (Pinnochio?)
Silver white winters that melt into springs (Help the Aged and your gran)
These are a few of my favourite things

When the dog bites (one for you Paws)
When the bee stings (one for Dexter again)
When I'm feeling sad (one for me)
I simply remember my favourite things
And then I don't feel so bad

[Repeat all verses until you feel bright and bushy tailed like a little red squirrel]

Come on lads you know the tune, lets all sing it together now - one two three four .......... :P
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby Wendelspanswick » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:34 am

I am a longtime user of another, very well attended, forum which has the normal no politics, religion rule etc and if a thread drifts in that direction a Mod will step in with "Mind the doors" and the thread is locked, it works very well and forum members have commented on how well it works. This shows in the membership which has a lot of very long standing users.
A function I use on that forum is the 'Ignore User' button, I have just 3 users on my ignore list, I don't find their posts rude or offensive, just irritating.
On the SWOG forum users also have this function, it's called 'Add Foe' and if you look at a posters profile you can click this function and none of that posters posts will be visible to you. If you find a user irritating just click the button!
I am glad to say that on this forum I have never clicked the 'Add Foe' button.
But I have been the subject of a PM from a moderator on this forum (for not editing down my quotes) yet with over 1750 posts on the other forum I have never attracted the attention of a mod!
Perhaps that is the problem, we are a small group with limited posts so they are heavily moderated compared to larger, more subscribed, forums.
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Re: forum or Facebook

Postby Rich » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:00 am

I don't see any cause for controversy here. Those who feel that they can't express themselves as they would like to on this platform will obviously find it more acceptable to go to facebook or other forums where they can. It's not a competition between 'facebook' and 'us', we are totally different entities. I personally choose not to use fb because of the reasons others have already mentioned, some people will want to use it instead of this for the perfectly valid reasons they express here.

When we set this board up, we wanted it to be a repository of knowledge related to woodlands, woodland ownership and those who aspire to woodland ownership. A first stop for those that have just bought a wood or have an idea that woodland ownership may be something they want, short or long term. We wanted it to be easy to use, accessible and welcoming of new members. Those that remember the old style board will recall that it was very simple to use, the last post sat on top of the previous post and it was there for all to see. In those days, we didn't seem to need moderation, it more or less ran itself. Two or three years ago we could see that although this was very easy to use, it wasn't quite so easy to search or follow threads. We have a huge resource of knowledge here, and we needed to be able to find it in an easy and logical way. For that reason, along with most other forums, we’ve asked people to try and keep to the subject thread or start a new thread.

As more and more people have joined we've asked them to agree to a set of terms and conditions and to be respectful and courteous of other members and their opinions. As it's grown, we've had to cater to a broader church, ranging from the academic who is looking for evidence and references for even the most throw away of comments to the more relaxed banter and ‘humour’ which has been appearing more recently. Inevitably this is not to everyone's liking and we have lost members (and moderators) at either ends of this spectrum as well as those in the middle who were just happy to muddle along. I realise that we can't cater for everyone, but we have tried, we set up the 'Lounge Room' for just this purpose. We have thrown considerable resources at this attempt, but actually it was never meant to be a 'social media'. It was meant to be a resource for people to find knowledge and advice and feel comfortable and uninhibited in doing so. It seems to me that the ‘noise’, by which I mean, the social interactions, the squabbles and the petit bickering and egos are getting in the way of what is was supposed to be in the first place.

Is this a reflection of how special interest groups evolve in real life? ....20 years ago before the internet arrived were things different? I don't know! I'm not a sociologist. So rightly or wrongly, the forum has tried to be all things to all people and maybe that just isn't possible. I don't think it's unreasonable though that we have a set of terms and conditions and to ask members who want to post to it to keep to them. I don't think it's unreasonable to have as one of it's core values the dissemination of knowledge and advice to woodland owners or 'would be' owners. And I don't think that it's unreasonable to structure our board in a way that gives emphasis to this rather than trying to be a social network.... after all that’s what facebook does so well... apparently!
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