Small Woodland Owners' Group

Your views on this wood requested please

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Re: Common land

Postby vushtrri » Fri May 29, 2015 2:00 pm

SimonFisher wrote:
vushtrri wrote:Common land can be owned by someone but everyone else has a 'right to roam' over it...

Is it really everyone else that has a right to something? My understanding was that it is usually a defined set of others with rights to use the land for grazing or to take materials for fuel. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_land


Afraid so...even if the land is privately owned but registered as Common Land , you and I as individuals can birdwatch, play football and many other things.....but we can't camp or have a BBQ there....or start our own Glastonbury. I seem to recall that the collecting of wood from common land may have been knocked on the head a few years ag...but I may be wrong on that one.
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby boxerman » Fri May 29, 2015 2:34 pm

Must confess that I wouldn't buy it with all those downsides BUT if you were to decide that you may be able to work around most and, considering it's being re-advertised aftre falling through, it may just be worth putting in a really silly offer on the basis that you don't mind either way and then sitting back and waiting. I guess it all depend on how desperately they want to sell.
Phil

https://twitter.com/boxermanphil for my Badger videos
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby splodger » Fri May 29, 2015 6:20 pm

have you done a land registry search?

you might be able to find out how long the vendor has had the land ( how much it was purchased for and when)

this info might give an indication as to why it is up for sale / re-sale. or if it has been split up in any way. should also give details of covenants etc

or you could ask the agents why it is up for sale again (why last fell through etc) - not that estate agents are reknowned for honest candour
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby Wendelspanswick » Fri May 29, 2015 9:13 pm

Our woodland is in an AONB and is subject to a SSSI and it has not been a hindrance.
A good friend of mine has commoners rights with his property and it DOES NOT give him the right to do as he pleases on the common, it does give him grazing rights and the permission to collect fallen timber only. This only applies to the properties in the area that have commoners rights, not all and sundry.

Taken from https://www.gov.uk/owning-common-land#rights-of-common

If you own land that is subject to rights of common, they could include some or all of the rights to:
graze sheep or cattle on your land - known as a ‘right of herbage’
take peat or turf from your land - a ‘right of turbary’
take wood, gorse or furze from your land - a ‘right of estovers’
take fish from waterways on your land - a ‘right of piscary’
allow pigs to eat acorns or beechmast on your land - a ‘right of pannage’
Commoners may be either active or inactive:
Active commoners are those who exercise their rights.
Inactive commoners do not currently exercise their rights, and may not even be aware of them. However, the legal right still exists if it is registered and may be exercised at any time.
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby vushtrri » Sat May 30, 2015 4:11 am

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Common land and village greens
You have the ‘right to roam’ on registered common land - you may use town or village greens for ‘lawful sports and pastimes’, eg playing football or walking your dog.
Common land
Common land is owned by someone, but other people can use it in specific ways. The ‘right to roam’ on common land means you can use it for activities like:

walking
sightseeing
bird watching
picnicking
climbing
running
You can’t:

camp on common land without the owner’s permission
light a fire or have a barbecue
hold a festival or other event without permission
Common land is a type of Access Land.

Town and village greens
You can use town and village greens for sports and recreation. Some also have ‘rights of common’ over them - like grazing livestock. The right to roam doesn’t apply to town and village greens.

Many greens are owned and maintained by local parish or community councils. Some are privately owned.

Common land and village greens near you
Find out where your local common land or village green is by contacting your local council. It keeps the ‘Register of Common Land and Village Greens’ for your area.

Each entry in the register contains information like:

a description of the land
who has rights to use it, and what those rights are
who owns it, or who owned it when it was first registered
If you own common land
The management of common land must take into account the interests of both the owner and the ‘commoners’ (people who have rights over the land but don’t own it). This can be done:

by the landowner
informally by landowners and those with rights on the land working together - for example to keep the land maintained and not over- or under-grazed
formally by setting up a statutory commons council - the stakeholders sit on the council, make decisions by voting and the decisions of the council are legally binding
Cross compliance and common land

As a landowner, if you claim agricultural payments under the Single Payment Scheme, you must comply with cross compliance rules across all of your agricultural land - not just the land that you claim payments for.

The responsibility for cross compliance with common land is shared with the other stakeholders. If the other stakeholders are actively using the land, setting up a commons council can help with meeting cross compliance rules.
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby Wendelspanswick » Sat May 30, 2015 8:19 am

"
walking
sightseeing
bird watching
picnicking
climbing
running
"
No mention of football, it does mention football on town and village greens.

The deeds with my pals property are very specific, giving him Commoners Rights. All and sundry would not have the Commoners Rights but would have the right to roam on the common land.
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby Terry » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:24 am

Are these rights 'common' everywhere in the UK?
I have it in my head that the rights are specific to each area of common land depending on what the arrangements were when it was first declared common land (and no doubt amendments over the years)???
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby psafloyd » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:54 pm

Why would you be buying it with a Sipp if it is non-commercial woods?

Or are you chopping in your Sipp to release funds to do this?

pickle wrote:Hi, I have the funds to purchase via a sipp (pension). My question to you is " what do you think?".
I appreciate that we are all different and have individual ideas of the purpose of owning a wood, but general views of its possibilities and pointers of what to look for if I take this further.
It is less than 30 minutes travelling time, is quite large for a non-commercial woodland, and has a nice "feel".

Please have a look at "Buckle Wood" near Cheltenham and tell me what you think
Thanks
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Re: Your views on this wood requested please

Postby pickle » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:05 pm

Hello psafloyd
Thanks for your directness, it is certainly an interesting approach.

The reason for the purchase being funded by a SIPP is that this is the only financial way I can afford to purchase a woodland.
I am too young to release funds from my pension (however I am reading about a Hong Kong based company who you can transfer your pension to, who then lend you back up to 95% of its value with very preferential interest rates).

A SIPP pension can be used to purchase commercial property and woodland falls in to this category. That is where the rules move from transparent to rather murky waters.
I have found a pension provider who will source pension fund trustees to allow my SIPP pension to purchase a woodland, subject to valuation, and lease it to me (at "the going rate"), subject to insurance and a management plan.
The overall thinking is that if I pay rent for the commercial property, insure it and look after it (woodland management plan), then not only will the annual value of the pension go up, but the long term value will also go up.
Rather like a shop, or any other commercial property.
So what I "do" with the woodland, whether it be commercial or amenity use, is pretty irrelevant, subject to meeting the above criterion.

Obviously I do not own the woodland, my pension fund does. However when I am able to cash in my SIPP, I can either use the funds to purchase the woodland (at the market rate), sell the woodland and have the cash or invest it in something else, or continue to rent the woodland until I die, in which case the woodland is inherited by my kids tax free.

All I have to do is find a woodland that is suitable and meets my requirements of a woodland that I would wish to lease from my pension fund.

It sounds so easy......

Tim
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