Small Woodland Owners' Group

Hello from new member

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Hello from new member

Postby ericmark » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:39 am

I have it seems said things without the thought that should have gone into the post and I unreserved apologise for what I have said. I have removed all posts and will not be posting again on this forum.
Yours Eric Palmer
Last edited by ericmark on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby tracy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:26 am

Welcome Eric!
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby ericmark » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:50 pm

removed
Last edited by ericmark on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby Rich » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:44 pm

ericmark wrote:I have an ongoing project to show how bad wood stoves are for the woodland. Not totally convinced but it would seem the efficiency of wood stoves is often over stated. I have been reading this page from USA with interest the system seems to tick all the boxes. Unlike Hughes Design which it seems is only a prototype the rocket stove mass heater it would seem has been built and does not need electric power. Seems too good to be true and normally when things are too good to be true they are not true.

So any thoughts please.


I think the problem would be the health and safety aspect of the rocket stove mass heater. Already we have layers of accreditation for installing regular woodstoves and flues. There would need to be some fairly robust engineering and standards for these to become mainstream and preclude any potentially fatal fumes entering the room. I saw on one of the videos a bit of back draft developed on the vertical fuel input, this was caused by a leak further up the system and the whole thing needed rebuilding.

Having said that, it's on my list of things to do! Cutting fire wood is hard work so why not cut less of it and enjoy sitting on yer thermal mass more!
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby ericmark » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:14 pm

removed
Last edited by ericmark on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby Stephen1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:36 am

Hi Eric

Are you based in North Wales? I've met Iliff and visited his woods - lovely man and interesting woods. As I've said before on this forum I think he has come to many of the right conclusions but not always via the right reasoning!

In terms of stoves I think these systems are more robust thn people think - and all ratings of efficency and theoretical output are to be taken with a bucket of salt. I have a 26kW stove running 16 radiaators (where a double pannel counts as two!) and our hot water. The flue is chimney is thermocrete lined (was aa large Inglenook ) and works very well. Having a boiler on all three sides and the top of the firebox does reduce flue temperatures but it still draws very well and with properly seasone wood doesn't tar up. However the insides of the boiler tar up terribly and if I were installing it again I'd use a Laddomat to reduce this.

I use almost exclusively softood by the way. This keeps the house warm (2 young children) even though we have very poor insulation (the house is over 450 years old with 2+ thick stone/rubble walls - which I'd imagined would act as a storage heater but actually just suck in heat!)

I think as long you have a big fire box then the majority of the fire is surrounded by fire - i.e. not on the edge next to the 'cool' surface of the boiler (which creates a poor environment for complete/efficient combustion then they work pretty well. Much of the anxiety is caused by wood boiler companies talking up the problems of stoves in an attempt to sell their products.

Rocket mass heaters work great - but you'll never get buildings insurance! All theoretical stoves with scrubbers need electricity and although you could have a 12v truck battery and inverter - I'd still be concerned about power cuts and their fragility due to their complexity.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby Alex » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 am

Welcome to the forum Eric.

I'm from North Wales also, and currently trying to lobby Welsh Government to make woodland creation both easier and with more incentive (through Glastir, following BWW)

As for the talk about wood stoves, my house is much like Stephen's we have two woodburners on the go at the moment, both keep the rooms reasonably warm, it's a lot of work to keep them going, so I think I understand your point about their insufficiency.
One of the burners recently replaced an open fire, I preferred the latter as this was also connected to the radiators around the house, and larger logs could be fitted into it, however it didn't create as much heat, and there were also issues and worries regarding the risk of fire.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby Stephen1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:57 pm

Alex wrote:
I'm from North Wales also, and currently trying to lobby Welsh Government to make woodland creation both easier and with more incentive (through Glastir, following BWW)



Oh no I'm going to hijack this thread!! What ideas do you have to make woodand creation easier and do you really think £9000 hectare plus a fencing grant isn't sufficient funding for the currently very hard pressed tax payer to cough up? What about all the hospital and ward closures we're having in north wales right now - where would the extra cash come from, unless taxes were increased.

The best idea I can think of would be to either increase income tax on any non-farming income or to heavily tax bear breeding :D

I think the reason the woodland creation side of Glastir has failed (in terms of the area it was hoped would be created) isn't anything to do with funding or it being difficult, it's just cultural - In Wales (and probably in Lloegr/England too) farmers don't plant fields with trees, it's just not what a farmer as perceived by their neighbours and peers as a "good" farmer does - and that's the mindset that would need to be addressed. Of course food security and the our role in that is also very tied up in the above.

I remember you were once talking about planting some trees - but it was a tiny area you were proposing yourself (if I remember correctly?). What was it that was holding you back from committing more land to trees - please ignore me if you feel I'm being rude or prying!
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby Alex » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:17 pm

You're spot on about the mindset and social issues being a huge barrier.It's something I'm working against, and I can give no answers yet to overcoming this challenge. Personally due to being a 'small holder' or you could say 'hobby farmer', I'm not really of the same mind set as those I am perhaps targetting. I think my grandfather comes from a generation of farmers who haven't been all about intensification and extracting the maximum from every blade of grass, and so his choice to plant tree's in his younger years has in some ways shaped my outlook also.

I also don't think you are being rude or prying by asking about my personal circumstances, the simple reason for not wanting to grow more trees / expanding the already created woodland is because the surrounding ground is relatively good land, whilst other parts of the farm which aren't already planted on, I'd consider growing a shelterbelt (steeply sloped / thin soils), and will definitely in the next 3 years, plant some tree's (where others once stood before strong winds) along the banks of the brook.
I personally think the 9k ha, the maximum Glastir could offer is enough, but I'm afraid not all land owners / farmers feel the same. Percieved loss of land value, idea of not being the 'traditional' farmer, maintenance costs, minimum widths being too high, there are many more small practical aspects to the scheme/grants being lobbied that would make it 'easier' for land owners. (If you'd like more specifics, then I don't mind detailing them) . Also there are plenty of large land owners in the county, who rent out much of their land, land agents are hardly going to advise them to plant tree's, despite the best intentions.

I've got no straightforward solution to providing further incentives, however it is clear following the impacts in November in places like Llan Elwy/St Asaph and upstream along the Elwy, that land management needs to play a part in the upper catchment, 'slowing the flow' downstream, a more holistic approach rather than bigger culverts, more concrete etc. whether funds could be re-allocated to land owners willing to sacrifice land, I can't say, but perhaps it is something that could be further investigated.
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Re: Hello from new member

Postby MattF » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:33 pm

Hello Eric
We have a rocket heater in the shed at the shooting club it works extremely well we use it to heat the shed, boil the kettle and cook off it was built by me and a friend he also made this one for his shed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBWSNjvO4cc he is also planning to make a new one for the new shed that will have a water boiler built in and a oven

Atb Matt
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